Bill English

Bill English Born: May 18, 1936 Retired: More than 32 years as an ad executive marketing, human resources. Vice president of marketing at what used to be called Control Data, now called Ceridian. Field of interest: sociologist and business training Del: What is your definition of the Civil Rights Movement? Bill: My definition of the Civil Rights Movement is the struggle for African Americans, in particular, and people of color in general to achieve equal status in the United States consistent with the guarantees of the Constitution. Del: How did you participate in activism during the Movement? Bill: My first activities in civil rights was trying to integrate the swimming pools in St. Louis... I grew up across the river from St. Louis in East St. Louis, Illinois. There were no public swimming pools for African Americans at that time. The outdoor pools were there and one day...a group of high-school students and I decided to just jump into the pool that was marked for whites only to see what would happen, and of course we were chased out of the pools by the police. But, that was my first activity and in the Civil Rights Movement. An effort at protesting what was then considered legal, segregation, forced segregation, even though the pools were open they were not open they were segregated. Then after my graduation from high school, college and subsequently into the military, I came out of the military in early 1955 after serving in Korea. When I came back from the war, I had a truly different attitude than what I had growing up in what was affectively our Jim Crow society. There was a town north east of where I grew up called Granted City, Illinois, home of a huge army depot. Well, Grated City had a sign at the beginning of the city limits that said no Negroes allowed after 6:00 p.m. So, I was exposed in the late 40's after World War II to segregation in society even though I grew up in what was supposed to be a free state. I was always struck by the differences. The schools were segregated there were black schools and white schools. It struck me that in what was supposed to be a free state segregation was in fact the rule. That left a deep impression on me. After I came back from Korea I was convinced that America had a lot to do to create an open society where everyone was created equal and I think that in my own mind consciously or not I dedicated my life to fighting that sort of thing. After graduated from college I came to Minnesota to go to grad school and I became really engaged in what was then called the Civil Rights Movement. It was a struggle for equal opportunity we were not interested integration-I want to emphasize this-we were interested in desegregation. I grew up in an all that black town where I was taught black history in high school, I went to an all black high school. It never occurred to me that integration was the goal. You choose your friends and your associates it's a choice on the basis of personality and how people like you not on the basis of forced. So, I was not interested in intermarriage with white people, but wanted the same opportunities. It struck me that desegregating America and creating equal opportunities was the law. It was also the basis of the Constitution, that said all men are created equal, that clearly if government supported it, and it was clearly supported by the government, then it was time to change the government by any means necessary. I became a student of Malcolm X. I read Franz Farnon The Wretched of the Earth and I began to understand that segregation and the second class citizenship is a policy of the government and to some extent the elite of this country. I believe that we all have to struggle so getting myself engaged in the Civil Rights Movement was in fact, I thought, my responsibility and obligation. Del: To you consider yourself active today? Bill: I consider myself an activist and I'm still active. As a matter of fact recently, in a moment of outrage, I called a state senator a redneck and it happened to be caught on TV. It was a senator from a western suburb who made outrageous, racist remarks about African Americans, Africans and gays and lesbians. I went over to an ethics meeting and the Ethics Committee gave him a free hand to say what ever he wanted to. When I was walking out of the meeting a reporter, whom I knew, asked me what I thought about it and I told him I thought he should apologize and if the U.S. Senate can censored Trent Lot for similar remarks it was very clear to me that the Minnesota legislature, Republicans in particular, who had that committee had let Minnesota people down by letting him have a free hand to say in- a responsible position -what he had chosen to say about people. The reporters then asked him, and I didn't realize he was walking by so close, when the reporters asked him why he would not apologize for the things he said. He said he would never apologize, and he did not regret what he had said. In my outrage I called him a redneck and pointed my fingers in his face, which for black people is an insult. I was just outraged. I had no intention of doing that, but I don't shy away for confrontation and generally I don't confront people about their racial attitudes. I try to work to persuade them or to work in a more diplomatic manner, but I was so outraged by that remark, that a senator from Minnesota, a culturally progressive state, could make such remarks. I am aware that other state legislators used the word Nigger. All of the time. But quite frequently. And I am aware that a reporter once said that the former aid to the governor quite frequently used the word nigger while he was in the legislature. So, when you reach my age and you had to struggle all your life and you see so little progress has been made outrage can come on pretty quickly. Del: How else are you active in the community? Bill: I serve as president of The City Inc.. , an alternative school for African-American students who are not doing well in public school system. I serve as the president of KMOJ, an educational public radio station that serves the African American community. And IÕm co-chair of the Coalition of Black Churches African American Leadership Summit which is really the only activist organization in town I have a lot of respect for. IÕm a member of the NAACP but the NAACP in this town is quite tepid. They seem not to want to engage in protest. In my mind if you don't engage in protest you are not really engaged in the struggle, so the Coalition Of Black Churches has held marches on the capital. We protested Jesse Ventura's effort not to appoint an African American to the cabinet. The first governor to do that in more than 30 years. We think we are responsible for his subsequent appointment of African Americans to the airport commission. We lead three thousand people on to march on the capital three years ago when Jesse Ventura was governor. We recently held of a march this year about the recent cuts in the budget that are going to have a disparate affect on poor people and people of color. I am still engaged in an active organization and we are now planning to protest Target about closing the West Broadway store so I am actively engaged in protest and I intend to be a part this struggle until I leave this earth. Del: In your opinion, would the public protesting of the past be effective way to make change today? Bill: I believe so. I absolutely believe so and let me tell you why. There are some people who would say that the protest movement is old civil rights activity and yet when I seem white women called MADD march on the capital to get legislation accomplished I realize that the protest movement is very much alive. I saw white students emulate the Civil Rights Movement to stop the Vietnam War. I saw people turn out in the hundreds of thousands to protest the war in Iraq. So I believe it is still an effective way of demonstrating concerned and dissatisfaction. I believe that if poor people and black people ever come together they can change this country. Turn this country around politically that is. I noticed that when King started to talk about the poor peopleÕs march thatÕs when King had to die. I really do believe that there was a conspiracy to kill Malcolm X and Martin Luther King. I believe that with a considerable amount of fervor because it was clear to me that as long as King was talking about civil-rights for black people he was fine. There's no way one-man to be engaged in the killing of King have money to travel to Europe and evade the police for so many years. I don't believe James Earl Ray acted alone I believe he was aided was paid by God knows who. But we do know that J. Edgar Hoover was engaged in illegal activities against the Civil Rights Movement and yet J. Edgar Hoover is still honored as a public servant and we know all of the illegal things that he has done. So it is not hard or a stretch for black people and others to believe that King was killed when he started to try and mobilize poor people to join the Civil Rights Movement for poor people. The wealth of this country-90 percent of the wealth of this country is owned exercise and controlled by less than 10 percent of the society. Those aren't Bill EnglishÕs figures those are figures from national statistics. So most of the wealth in this country, a great amount of the wealth in this country is controlled by a few people. So that means so-called middle-class people are living at the whims of these people who control the wealth. So if poor people and black people - poor white people - if you go into rural Kentucky, rural Tennessee, rural Mississippi, rural North Carolina and South Carolina as I have and see poor white people. I thought all poverty was urban and black until I traveled into the Deep South. I still see people, the so-called hillbillies, and others who are educationally disadvantaged. I saw coal miners who worked the mines for years to give the coal mine owners untold wealth and a government that allows them to pollute and cause unknown damage to human life and to the ecology. And we allow these people, the men, women, and children to suffer at the hands of these people. I've watched steel mill workers get turned out and they are now living in poverty in Pennsylvania and other places. So there are a lot of reasons for poor people to join with black people and this so-called Civil Rights Movement in order to talk about redistribution of some of the wealth that belongs to all of us. So I believe that we must continue to struggle, but we must collaborate. I believe that we collaborated early on in the 60's and 70's and supported the feminist movement to equalize things for white women. But my sense is white women have abandoned black people. My sense is they only care about getting equal opportunities for themselves. Not only did they emulate us in their movement in ways of organizing and protesting, but now they have abandoned us when we supported every move they made. We were strong supporters of the rights for equal opportunities for all women and I believe we have been abandon by them for all practical purposes now. Del: Are you familiar with the Black Arts Movement? Bill: Only vaguely. Del: How would you define the relationship between the Civil Rights Movement and the black arts movement? Bill: I think the Black Art Movement to this extent has captured the history of the Civil Rights Movement because the broader media and the broader arts community was not really interested in it. Sort of like the Harlem Renaissance with black artist gathered in York to capture the spirit which was atypical of the movement of African Americans in this country. And the black arts has captured the spirit and history of the Civil Rights Movement when no one else has. Del: And what do you think is the most important issue African Americans have to address today? Bill: Political power. Political and economic power are the two things that we have to continue to struggle for. Let me be very clear. When any reasonably educated person today can see that the U.S. presidency is for sale. S-A-L-E. The rich can buy it. And in fact I believe President Bush was illegally elected. I believe they stole Florida. The Supreme Court intervened when it never should have intervened. This court gave him an election when in fact a majority of the people voted for Al Gore. I don't believe the electoral ballot process is a valid concept anymore and it needs to be changed. But more importantly the Supreme Court should have required of a complete recount in Florida and allowed the voters to decide. Instead of deciding for them. So we need to have political power. Economic power. No community is economically viable when the dollars come in and go out. People of color spend six billion dollars a year in Minnesota those are figures published by the state of Minnesota. So the majority of their money comes from the African Americans because we are still the largest minorities in the state. And yet we are portrayed as takers and not givers. We spend over a half billion dollars in taxes yet we are portrayed as takers and not givers. And we know that the dollar turns over less than half of percent of one time in our community of the money we earn in jobs,ect.... goes out of our community. We need to own the businesses in our community and the consumer products that we consume we need of value added free share relationship with those companies. Let me give you an example. We eat Cheerios and Wheaties and drink more soda for what ever reason more than white people. And the beer companies know that and the soft-drink companies know that that's why you see black people portrayed so often in their ads. But the fact is we don't provide those companies anything what if we just provided 40 percent of the packaging. To the cereal companies for cereal what if we provided 40 percent of the bottles for the beer companies. We could create economies our community, and own those businesses in our community, making our community economically viable. But we don't do that. We are not doing that and I think we need to struggle to do that and begin to recognize the power of our vending, as the advertisers have already recognized. We now need to politicize that and to move forward to receive a fair share so we can grow our communities economically and become the Greenwood of Tulsa, Oklahoma, of Minnesota, of California , of Georgia and anywhere else. We need to do those things. Del: You mentioned Greenwood? Bill: Yes, Greenwood the Black Wall Street of Tulsa Oklahoma that was destroyed by riots. In the early 30's African Americans owned all the businesses along Greenwood Avenue it was a vibrant community. There was a riot and those businesses were destroyed and the state of Oklahoma has apologized and they are still trying to find ways to compensate African-Americans for those businesses that were destroyed and taken over. But, I think we need to recreate that in our communities around the country. If you go into a black neighborhood now who owns the businesses itÕs Arabs, or the Koreans is just the fact of life. We have to own those businesses and we have to turn the dollar over and our community because we know of the dollar has to turn over four or five times for a community to be economically viable. We need to focus on that. The way we achieve that is by participating in the political process by becoming voters, registered voters. Poor people and black people are turned off because it doesn't seem to matter who wins nothing ever changes for us. But we must continue to follow the tradition of our ancestors who died for the right to vote to exercise that power. Because I believe if poor people and black people voted in a block that this country would be changed. Our lots are the same we just don't seem to recognize that. Del: And what do you think of the Civil Rights Movement today? Bill: The Civil Rights Movement today is lackadaisical. In the sense that our organizations for the most part have not been able to mobilize people to vote and to convince people that voting leads to political power. They are not focused on making the community economically viable. I donÕt think it is going to take much to get people to mobilize. With John Ashcroft and George Bush as president people are becoming more and more concerned. I envision a day when one morning we will wake-up and in the 18th or 20th largest markets in this country African-Americans and other people who believe we must change this country. Will get into our cars and drive onto the freeways of America turn off our cars and walk home leaving the freeways clogged unmercifully, go home, and take our phones off the hook and tie up the communications and roadways of this countryÕs largest markets for about three or four days. That is all it would it take to make this government begin to see that it must do something about providing equal opportunities. I think we have to do that. A different type of protest, but a protest to prove that at any time we want we could paralyze this country. Del: Control Bill: There was an effort to control the Civil Rights Movement there was certainly sabotage, infiltration by FBI spies. Illegal eavesdropping going on in the Civil Rights Movement J. Edgar Hoover called Malcolm X and Martin Luther King two of the most dangerous men in America. So I think that kind of control was tried for a very long time. I'm not sure of the extent that it goes on today but my suspicions are that we are still widely watched and documented. Del: Dehumanize Bill: Any time people are denied the right to human dignity it is dehumanizing. The president went to Senegal the other day and for political reasons said that slavery was one of the worst crimes perpetrated on America. But we cannot discuss reparations. ThatÕs inconsistent, we supported reparations for what the Nazis did to the Jews, but we can't even have a discussion of what it would mean for African Americans. I'm not talking about some wild money give away scheme. I'm not talking about 40 acres and a mule. But I am talking about some form of reparations for two-hundred and fifty three years of economic slavery. This country was built on the back of slaves. The economy of this country was built on the backs of slaves - my ancestors. So America owes a debt. Our capital was built on this. The very capital building. Slave hauled those stones four hundred miles from the quarries of Virginia and other places and laid those stones in place on mule driven wagons. And yet you cannot find a symbol of that activity in Washington - in the capital - that's repugnant itÕs criminal and it`s revisionist history. Del: Stigma Bill: The stigma that black is less than human still exist. White supremacy is alive and well in America. Del: Traumatized Bill: Traumatize - as a child I remember my father witnessed the last lynching in Missouri. He came home and for the first time I realize that my father was frightened by white people unable to protect me and that is a trauma that I still associate today with police brutality. I know that as a black man I can be pulled over by a police and brutalized. And so traumatize is something that black men in particular and black people in general still suffered because to deny that racial profiling still goes on is ignoring the obvious. Del: Loss Bill: Loss of dignity and loss of opportunity. Loss of the sense that my grandchild or my child on her way to college will have the same opportunities as her white counterparts even today some fifty odd years after the Civil Rights Movement America is still not the land of free justice and is still not color blind. I feel that's a loss. Del: Identity Bill: It`s difficult for me to associate identity with the Civil Rights Movement because I grew up in a family where pride itself was taught at an early age. So I feel that black is beautiful, that you don't have to have blond hair and blue eyes to be pretty. And that black people were not to people running around in loincloths in Africa. That we had great institutions. We had democracy. We had freedom and a justice system that worked. So that Africa as displayed by popular press and media and this history is not true. And that Timbuktu was a great city of learning and that people traveled there from all over the world. And that Egypt was an African society and that the great pyramids and other things where built by black people. And so that's what I think about identity. Del: Survival Bill: Interesting word the human spirit is endowed by the creator with an unrelenting need to survive. We have survived in spite of oppression. In spite of a government that turned itÕs back on its own Constitution. We survived slavery. We survived segregation, we survived the Jim Crowism, we survived lynching, we will survive racial profiling, we will survive poverty. Del: Inspire Bill: I am inspired most by the same thing that most black people have and that is a spiritual beliefs. The spirit is what inspires us. The spirit of Malcolm, the spirit of Martin, the spirit of Nat Turner, the spirit of Sojourner Truth, the spirit of Harriet Tubman, the spirit of Mary McGaughlin, is still with us. Our relationship with God is what helps us to survive and it inspires us to continue to struggle, every single day, many of us continue the struggle. Del: Hope Bill: I believe there must be a belief that translates to hope that the struggle will matter. That in the end we will be successful that victory will be achieved. Del: Closure Bill: Closure. It's not over till it's over. There is no closure until freedom has been achieved and I'm hopeful that my grandchildren and my great grandchildren will continue the struggle until America becomes the colorblind society the Constitution demands. Bill English

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