Dawn Renee Jones

Field of occupation? Writer, director, film producer, currently involved in theater in television and film and I was a dancer. Year of birth: 1948 Del: What is your definition of the Civil Rights Movement? Dawn: The Civil Rights Movement was a movement of American citizens toward branching civility, civil rights and more equal opportunities for African-Americans. Del: In your opinion would the public protesting and boycotts of the past be an effective way to make a change today? Dawn: No. Del: Why not? Dawn: Well, because the bad guys are on to us. The people who were influenced, effected and moved by marches and protests are no longer (effected)... I think that we are a generation and a half, maybe two, of (people who) protested (durning the movement) and things. Yeah, that's over fifty years from the beginning of the Civil Rights Movement in the mid-fifties to around the early sixties. So that was almost fifty years ago. And in the last fifty years, there has been so many protests that I think the powers that be are numb to it. The Million Man March didn't even make a difference. That number, a million people marching, so what? How many people protested this war in Iraq? I'm sure a million people or more. So what? So, I think the power structure is numb to that type of protest I don't think it's valid anymore. Dawn: Are you asking me what we should do? Read me the question again, Del: Do you think that the past way of protesting and the boycotts are effective ways to make a change today? Dawn: At the time it was, but I don't think it is now. Del: What do you think would be effective today? Dawn: An exorcism. America needs an exorcism. Short of that, I think it will take many many many many more people. The same people who march, they march one day and that's the end of that. And they go back and they get back in the SUVs... So as many people protest and turn that energy towards making a change in every aspect of their life, effecting the change they want in every aspect of their lives that's what it's going to take. Go and protest for a day and then go back to the same old crap. Nobody wants to be responsible. Protest for the war in Iraq and then go back home and they have these aerosol cans that are eating up the ozone. Nobody stopped using the aerosol cans. That's what I think. Now what will it take to make that happen? I don't know? I guess the other side of the exorcism or maybe the second coming. It may take some type of cosmic epiphany an instance when people just wake up and be responsible. Del: How did you participate in the Civil Rights Movement? Dawn: Well I followed all the appropriate boycotts. I didn't use anything I wasn't suppose to. We boycotted, I think, A&P Supermarkets in Chicago. We couldn't get in Walgreens and some other drugstore. During the Civil Rights Movement... I graduated from High school in 1966. So, 64, and 65 some things started to happen in Chicago. For sure in my senior year of high school there were various protest and boycotts of products and retailers that wouldn't hire black people. So, I was involved in that. Del: Would you consider yourself active today? Dawn: Somewhat. Yes. Somewhat. Del: And how would you define the relationship between the Black Arts Movement and the Civil Rights Movement? Dawn: Well, the Civil Rights Movement, the success of the Civil Rights Movement, the success of these public voices being heard, created a new landscape for people to send their voices as artists and people in general. You know we had people protesting and clowning and acting a fool and singing as artists and people in general you know... Holding hands and singing We Shall Overcome and I think that sense of coming out of the closet. I think black people came out of the closet, I think black people came out of the closet and we stopped being America's little secret. I think that the Black Arts Movement was just part of that same voicing. We weren't separate from the Civil Rights Movement. We were people who were also affected by the Civil Rights Movement. So, like I said, this landscape was created for the first time for black Americans to speak up and speak out without getting lynched. It cost some lives for sure. There are casualties in every war. But the numbers to which black people were able to show up on the evening news every night... we came out the closet. We are here and we are a force to be reckoned with. I think that the arts was just a continuation of that. I think artist finally felt that they had the licensed to speak, to say, to communicate what they are feeling and thinking and needing. Del: I've spoken to some of the other participants interviewed. Some of them around your age, some a little older than you. And they are not really familiar with the Black Arts Movement as a movement with name to it. Dawn: You are absolutely right. You know what, as a matter of fact I was talking to a friend of mine who was in the arts at the same time I was in the sixties. He said to me, "did we miss the meetings to that? Was it a movement?" I said, "I missed the meeting, too."Ó It seems that people who were not involved in it are the ones that are putting theses na mes on it. Del: Could you kind of define what it was or is it still going on? Dawn: Now didn't I just say there was no movement? Del: So is that what your saying there wasn't any movement? Dawn: The movement, okay, the Black Arts Movement. Del: Yeah, because some people define it as a period of powerful protest art. Dawn: Absolutely. Not just protest art, but love art. I think it was Che Guevara who said, 'A true revolutionary is motivated by love not hate.' And I think the black Civil Rights Movement, I think, was motivated by that love. And it was that love that put people into the defensive or offensive. To defend the people they love. Del: Do you think it still exist as a movement? Dawn: No. Del: Where would you say it ended? Dawn: Well, I think that the Black Arts Movement of such was just part of the evolution of the various art forms that were evolved, of all the art forms. You know again it was that breaking out, being heard. So the content, the approach to the work as well as the content. Del: What do you think is the most important issue African-American have to address today? Dawn: The one issue Del: Most important issue. Dawn: Wow! Oh God! I'm really into this thing about people waking up. I think what African-Americans not unlike the rest of America are stuck in this complacency and of course there are exceptions to the rule. But, I just see people not living up to their full potential, because they are so bogged down by this society, old negative attitudes, or old negative beliefs. I think that far too many of the black institutions are stuck in protest, because once the protest is cleared away and you got your foot in the door - what's the plan? And what I'm seeing institutionally is a lot of black institutions don't have a plan and the plan they had is stuck in the fifties and sixties and is totally obsolete now. You know our approach I think as a people. We just need to be a lot more clear about the reality we're in and what it takes to survive the reality we're in and lamenting the reality that was, good and bad. Let's be fully present right now. What are we going to do right now. Protest (may) get your foot in the door. Once you're in, what are you going to do? Del: What do you think of the Civil Rights Movement today? Dawn: Is there a Civil Rights Movement today? Del: Is that how you feel or are you aware of it still continuing? Dawn: Heck no. Hahe! Heck no. Del: When did it end? Dawn: When did it end? It ended with the passage of laws. You know Lyndon Johnson and JFK they signed some laws. Some people got to step up and mostly the people who were protesting were the one who stepped up. So when they stepped up they got a hold of the brass ring, they got what they were after. They got the house in the suburbs. So, that was dead with the movement. Things got resolved yes, things got resolved and a big piece of it is that people who are on the front lines pretty much, more or less got a piece of what they want and that was the end of the protest. Del: The second half of the interview, again as I mentioned, are words that were taken from a book that is distributed to schools on how to deal with the new immigrants. And someone did point out to me that there is a difference between an immigrant an a refugee and the book is how to deal with both of those who are victims of torture and traumatic situations in unstable countries. If you can just respond on how you feel the words respond to the Civil Rights Movement or the condition of African-Americans today. The first word is control. Dawn: Immigrants, refugees, because I got hung up on the difference between the two. You don't want me to think about that. Del: No actually just how the word relates to the Civil Rights Movement or the need for... Dawn: Do they have Civil Rights? Del: Pardon me. Dawn: Do the immigrants and refugees have Civil Rights? Del: When they come over here? Dawn: Yes. Del: That's an interesting perspective. Do they? They believe they do. I believe that's why they come here seeking that. Dawn: So control you want me to just respond... Del: Yes, how you feel that word relates to the situation of the Civil Rights Movement really. Dawn: I have no answer for that Del: Really? Dawn: Nothing comes to mind. Next question. Del: Dehumanize Dawn: well these are the situations that the immigrants are escaping. Del: Well, are you... part of the concept of the word is dealing with the fact that African-Americans were brought here under traumatic situations and victims of torture. What I'm asking you to do is kind of brainstorm on how you feel those words relate to our society and conditions we were subject to as African-Americans. Dawn: Absolutely. Absolutely. Everybody knows that. Absolutely. We know all the gory details of what happened. Now compared to the immigrants, is that what I m suppose to do? Del: No, actually I just took the words from that book, because I felt that it was interesting that they even issued that type of book. Because I guess in reading and researching after slavery was declared illegal and slaves were set free, there was no type of class or books or instructions on how to deal with the tramatization of being the conditions they were in. They were just set free and told, Here deal with it. And so I felt it was interesting that now they're realizing how you need to deal with those situations, in order for people to be able to move forward. And I was just kind of asking if you could brainstorm on how you feel these words relate, even to the conditions of African-Americans today in your opinion. Dawn: Dehumanize? Del: Well, the first word is control. Dawn: Let's pass on control. Let's go back to dehumanize. Del: Yeah, dehumanize. Dawn: Well, we know that black people were dehumanized. And we know that many of these refugees have been in dehumanizing situations as well. So that's what I ...those are the lines I could draw there. I think it's wonderful that people who are coming over are getting some help... It would be nice if African-Americans would take advantage of what ever help is available. Del: Stigma Dawn: Yes. African-American were stigmatized. Still are. Del: Traumatized Dawn: Still are. Del: Loss Dawn: What was loss in the Civil Rights Movement? Del: Identity Dawn: Yes, African-Americans found an identity for sure in the Civil Rights Movement. Del: Survival Dawn: That's where we are stuck today. Del: Inspire Dawn: I think the clarity of the leadership of the Civil Rights Movement was inspiring. That clarity of communications about what needed to happen was inspiring, I don't know that we have that today. There are pockets. The leadership was inspiring and inspired. Del: Hope Dawn: Yes they had hope. They had great hope! They had great black hope! Hopes were high! Optimism was in full bloom. Del: Closure Dawn: Ragged and painful.

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